When Erica Sullivan entered the Olympic Village in Tokyo, the American swimmer was just happy to be there. The 21-year-old says that all changed when her roommates started bringing home medals.

Sullivan shared a room with Stanford’s Regan Smith, University of Wisconsin’s Phoebe Bacon, and University of Virginia’s Alex Walsh, Kate Douglass and Emma Weyant.

“It was just heightened college life, but you’re at the Olympics and you’re not partying, you are just there for a job,” Sullivan tells Kelley O’Hara on the Just Women’s Sports podcast.

Once the Games got underway, Sullivan remembers her roommates started to bring back medals, beginning with Weyant’s silver medal in the 400m medley, followed by Smith’s bronze in the 100m backstroke.

“I kind of felt the pressure during the last few days there,” remembers Sullivan. “I look at Regan in the morning because we are on plastic beds side-by-side around two feet apart, and I am like ‘Regan, I want a medal.’”

The Team USA star also recalls waking up on the day of her 1500-meter freestyle final feeling confident that she would perform.

“I woke up that morning on finals day being like, ‘Yeah you’re gonna do it, you just have to do it like you want it more than anyone else,’ and luckily it worked in my favor and I did it.”

The moment is still sinking in for Sullivan, who captured the silver medal behind fellow American Katie Ledecky, clocking a time of 15:41.41.

“It was crazy, it didn’t feel real. It honestly still feels like a fever dream,” says Sullivan, “I don’t have the medal here with me anymore — it’s in Vegas at home — so I kind of forget about it sometimes.”

Luckily, Sullivan now has a tattoo of the Olympic rings to remind her of her silver-medal run in Tokyo.

“I have the rings tattooed on my side now, so sometimes when I am getting ready for swim practice, I’m changing in and out of my swimming gear, I am like, ‘Oh, you did do that didn’t you? That’s crazy.’”

Hear more from Sullivan on her Olympic journey on the latest Just Women’s Sports podcast.

Marla Messing has been appointed the interim CEO of the NWSL, the league announced Monday.

Soccer fans will likely recognize her as the president and CEO of the 1999 Women’s World Cup. More recently, Messing served as the CEO of United States Tennis Association Southern California from 2019-21, as vice president and executive director of the 2024/2028 Los Angeles Olympic and Paralympic Bid Committee and as consultant to Los Angeles FC and Barcelona in 2018.

Messing met with reporters on Wednesday to talk about her role, how she got to the NWSL and what kind of league she plans to build in the aftermath of a widespread reckoning over abuses of power and player protections and rights. What follows are her responses to several important questions about the league’s future.

What inspired Messing to return to the soccer scene

I was part of an inflection point in the sport of women’s soccer, and since the 1999 World Cup, the growth in popularity of the game — certainly at the national team level — has been even beyond what I expected. To see the various leagues, including the NWSL, and also the leagues around the world, really begin to invest in women’s soccer has been incredibly rewarding to me.

So, when the events or the disclosure of the events that happened recently came to light, I was very interested in stepping in to help. This is something I care deeply about, and if I can help be a catalyst for change, then you know that’s something that means a lot to me.

How she became the interim CEO

Given my history in the sport of soccer … Cindy Cone of U.S. soccer reached out to me and I believe reached out to the executive committee of the NWSL … to put my hat in the ring for the position. So it was suggested by her and then I met with the executive committee, and I know they met with other people and considered other ways of handling this, but ultimately they selected me.

What her role looks like as interim CEO

In some respect, I will be acting in the same way a commissioner would. I will be part of the board of governor meetings and I would be working closely in collaboration with the board of governors too achieve the things we want to achieve and I will be managing the league office … establishing policies for clubs and our teams to be following. That will be my responsibility, as well.

On the possibility of her role becoming permanent

We have a lot of issues, a lot of challenges, but right now my mandate is to move over the investigations, to make sure institutional change happens, and to run the day-to-day operations of the league. Frankly, that is what I’m focused on. I want to be successful at accomplishing those things on behalf of the players in the league, and everything else, time will tell.

Why she is the best candidate for the position

I don’t know that I was the best candidate for the position. I was the candidate that was selected for the position But look, I think that my history in the sport of soccer and, in particular, around the Women’s World Cup, my legal background, my willingness to jump in right away and work tirelessly to try to accomplish what we need to accomplish, and probably my relationship with some of the players, mostly from 1999 – people like Cindy Cone and Julie Foudy and Kate Markgraf, all of whom I’ve spoken with … I guess ultimately what I was able to convey to them, to the executive committee in the several phone calls and video calls I had with them, they must have found me compelling and someone who could achieve the goals that they would like to achieve.

Her communication style with players

There have been some issues around transparency and I feel really good about the relationship Meghann [Burke] and I have started to build. I’ve known Becca [Roux] for a while now, so I feel really good about that relationship, too. It’s my plan to be transparent with them and honest and direct and I expect the same coming back to us at the league, so I’m committed to that. I know it’s something that perhaps hasn’t happened in the past, but I look forward to making that change.

How diversity and inclusion fit into her plans

Absolutely that has to be a priority. We want the league to reflect the makeup of our players and, frankly, the makeup of the community we live in, so absolutely it’s a priority and we have to start thinking about what types of policies we put in place to make sure that we’re making progress in that area.

Whether she’s had any dialogue with the Black Women Players Collective

I have not had any dialogue with them candidly. My dialogue’s been primarily with Meghann and the NWSLPA, with Becca Roux and the U.S. women’s national team, and I’ve been trying to meet my staff, meet the owners and the members of the board of governors and talk to people I know in the soccer community who I think have a good perspective on what’s happened and and how it can be remedied. But, for sure, I am committed to speaking with the Collective and starting to get out and actually talk to current players as much as possible.

What she would say to players during this transition

I think our players deserve as much or more support from the fans today as they did a couple months ago. I’m not trying to make any pitches, but I think our players are just incredibly deserving of the support they receive from their fans and I hope that the events or the disclosure of the events that happened don’t diminish that at all. I think actually it would be acting almost in the opposite direction of what the players really deserve and need right now.

The possibility of an NWSL rebrand

Let me just be crystal clear: Our first objective is to get our house in order and to make sure that we are meeting the minimum standards of a professional league and addressing the issues that the players want and deserve us to address. If we can accomplish all those things and then take the opportunity with the 10th anniversary of the league coming around in January, to do some kind of rebrand to celebrate that 10th anniversary, we will. I just don’t want anyone to think I’m committing to that because we have higher priorities right now, but if we can do something, we will and it would be an amazing way to celebrate the league.

Whether she’s been actively involved with collective bargaining agreement negotiations

There is a committee of the board that has been engaged in the CBA negotiations. I am just starting to get sort of engaged in that process, but I haven’t been these past few days and I don’t really have a sense of the timing. I just think I don’t have enough information at this point.

How the NWSL’s investigations will correspond with FIFA and U.S. Soccer’s investigations

The NWSL and the NWSLPA will be collaborating on the single investigations, so instead of two there will be one. That certainly cuts down on some of these issues. The coming to them early will also coordinate with U.S. Soccer’s investigation.

In terms of FIFA and any other investigations, candidly we have not heard what their plans are.

In terms of timing, it’s going to take some time for these investigations to be completed and to be completed in the right manner. I think it’s going to be three, six, nine months and we don’t know exactly until they begin to uncover the facts, so that’s probably about all I can say about timing right now.

The current ownership situation with the Washington Spirit (who were given a two-week window to select a new owner but haven’t announced anything)

Steve Baldwin has publicly stated that he intends to sell the team and we have been involved in serious discussions about him selling the team. So even though we had given him 14 days to respond to us, we have laterally extended that period of time because we’re very hopeful that a sale will take place forthwith.

Thoughts on whether the team should be sold to Y. Michele Kang

I would say, generally, I have the goal to have an owner in Washington, D.C. that the players like and respect and that the players feel has their best interests at heart. Whether that’s Michele or somebody else, I can’t really say. Obviously, Steve Baldwin, it’s up to him to sell the team. The league does have approval over that sale, so we will be watching it closely.

Jessa Braun is an editorial intern at Just Women’s Sports. She is also the Head of North American Content for the Women’s Sports Alliance. You can follow her on Twitter @jessabraun.

The 2021 Rip Curl WSL Finals are just around the corner.

For the first time ever, surfing’s top athletes will gather for a one-day event to crown two indisputable champions of the sport, with both the women’s and men’s finals happening on the same day. The top five leaders from each tour will descend upon Lower Trestles, San Clemente, Calif., for the winner-take-all tournaments. A nine-day waiting period begins Sept. 9, with conditions determining when the single-day event is ultimately called.

“I think the WSL Finals and having that format for the first time ever is going to be really exciting,” Jessi Miley-Dyer, WSL’s Head of Competition, tells Just Women’s Sports.

Going into the Finals, all eyes will be on World No. 1 Carissa Moore, the heavy favorite to win a title in California after capturing the first-ever Olympic gold medal in surfing. For Miley-Dyer, the sport’s Olympic debut was a pivotal moment, “a statement of validation for not only the athletes but also us as a sport to be in there for the first time.”

“To have so many new eyes take notice of our athletes in particular is cool,” she adds.

Miley-Dyer and the rest of the WSL are counting on more than a few of those new eyes to tune into the Rip Curl Finals, where Moore will be joined by Tatiana Weston-Webb, Sally Fitzgibbons, Stephanie Gilmore and Johanne Defay in the Finals bracket.

On the men’s side, Gabriel Medina heads into the competition ranked No. 1, followed by Italo Ferreira, Filipe Toledo, Conner Coffin and Morgan Cibilic.

The choice to hold the women’s and men’s Finals on the same day marks an intentional and transformative shift by the WSL.

“It’s a huge moment on the women’s tour because it’s the first time ever we’re going to be crowning a women’s world champ on the same day as the men’s,” Miley-Dyer says. “The thing that I love about that is that we will have both our best male and best female stand there together as the heads of the sport.”

The men’s and women’s joint Finals preview a new, long-term structure for the WSL, who recently announced a fully integrated schedule for the upcoming season. Starting in 2022, the Championship Tour will feature ten regular-season events highlighting a combined women’s and men’s schedule, beginning with Pipeline, Hawai’i on January 29.

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“It’s really important to me that we have those opportunities for men and women to be able to compete at the same amount of events, but also for us to be having the tour the same, it also means that women are surfing really good waves,” Miley-Dyer says.

The new WSL structure will also feature a third competition tier to go along with the Championship Tour and Challenger Series, dedicated to regional development. The WSL hopes that the regionalized series will increase access to the sport while providing fresh faces an avenue to qualify at “the very highest level.”

As a surfer on the Championship Tour for six years, Miley-Dyer remembers her junior career as successful and supportive, with great sponsors.

“I’m very passionate about other surfers getting to have those opportunities as well,” she says, speaking to the WSL’s commitment to development and investment.

The WSL previously made history in 2018 when it became one of the only sports leagues to announce the implementation of equal prize money for men’s and women’s competitions. Now, the revamped tour structure picks up where the equal pay push left off.

“We believe really strongly in equality, and one of the things when we announced equal prize money is that it’s a really strong statement about the value of the women’s tour to have the women’s surfers be paid equally,” Miley-Dyer says. “Coming off of that, when we looked at the Challenger Series, we were like … there is no reason why we can’t have the same amount of events for men and women and in the same spots.

“It’s the right thing to do and we are committed to doing it.”

Tune in: Rip Curl WSL Finals begin as soon as Sept. 10. Check out worldsurfleague.com or the WSL App for updates.

When Sloane Stephens walks out of the tunnel at Arthur Ashe Stadium for her opening match of the US Open, it will be understandable if she has déjà vu. Four years ago, Stephens won the tournament with a straight-set victory over Madison Keys, her first-round opponent Monday.

Stephens’ unprecedented run to the trophy in 2017, in which she became the lowest-ranked US Open champion ever, remains her only Grand Slam title. She reached a career-best No. 3 world ranking the following year after winning the Miami Open and finishing as runner-up at the French Open.

Since then, Stephens has had mixed results.

Her form started to slip in 2019 and this year she fell out of the top 60 for the first time since before the 2017 US Open. Stephens has also had to cope with tragedy after losing an aunt, a grandmother and a grandfather to COVID-19 in the past year. She attended her grandparents’ funerals virtually from the bubble at the Australian Open in February and later said she regretted not going in person.

Stephens, 28, enters the US Open this week with a clearer mind. She has played better since the Australian Open and prioritized her mental health through the adversity. For Stephens, the last Grand Slam of the year also carries special meaning.

“It’s obviously the first Slam that I won,” she said. “And when I was 12, my mom and stepdad took me to the US Open. I have those experiences from when I was very young, and I think that’s what makes it so special.”

Stephens spoke with Just Women’s Sports about Naomi Osaka reigniting the conversation around mental health, her charity work off the court and what she’s learned about herself and her game since 2017.

The past year has brought several ups and downs, but you’ve had some good finishes at recent tournaments including making it to the fourth round of the French Open and the third round at Wimbledon. How do you feel about your game right now?

Good. Obviously the pandemic has been rough, and the point situations and the travel have been rough, and everything’s been difficult not just for me but for everyone. So getting matches every week and getting that confidence back is super helpful. I’m not where I was or where I want to be, but I think I’m headed in the right direction. So I’m happy with that, and I’m just trying to work through it, manage every day and just keep going.

I saw you recently changed coaches. What has that setup been like and what have you been working on with them?

I stopped working with Kamau Murray, but I kind of work with the same people. It’s always a different experience working with new people and so far, so good. I’m just trying to get into a space where I can be competitive and win matches again and be happy on the court. I think that’s the most important thing.

You were recovering from a knee injury this summer after a fall at Wimbledon. How has that recovery gone and how are you feeling physically?

The recovery went well. Obviously not enough time, but this is the most important time of the year. So I’m just trying to manage and make sure that I’m ready for the biggest tournament, which is the US Open, but also making sure that these next few weeks I put out good performances and good matches and am really competitive because this is the most important time.

You’ve dealt with injuries throughout your career and battled back from many different types of adversity. As you’ve gained experience from being on tour longer, have you learned to cope with those types of ups and downs better?

Yeah, we’re doing a lot of adjusting and coping. I would say the pandemic isn’t the hardest thing I’ve ever dealt with in my career, but injury is like nothing compared to this. Injuries you can kind of put in perspective, like you know what you’re working for, you know what you have to do to get back and you know what it’s going to take. In the pandemic, you don’t know what’s going to happen. You don’t know if the tour’s going to stop again. You don’t know what the circumstances are going to be week in and week out. So I think being injured is tough, but I’ve definitely put it in perspective more. I’ve dealt with it a lot in my career, but nothing compares to obviously a pandemic.

Since Naomi Osaka pulled out of the French Open and Wimbledon for mental health reasons, how has her message resonated with you and how important do you think it is that mental health has become part of the conversation?

Yeah, I’ve been talking about mental health and taking care of yourself for years now. And I think she was the perfect person to step up for herself when the time wasn’t right for her and to say what she needed to say. I think you have to support that and you have to applaud her because she did that when a lot of people wouldn’t, and I think that shows strength. She chose what was best for her and a lot of people didn’t like that. This pandemic has taught a lot of people that you do have to put yourself first and you have to choose yourself over making other people happy and making decisions based on what other people think. That’s just my personal experience, so I’m obviously happy to be around to see her strength and her will to do what is best for her.

It’s especially true in tennis because the schedule is so grueling during the year. Have you developed any tactics over the years to help with your own mental health?

Yeah, I do what’s best for me and I have been for a while. Obviously everyone is different and they handle everything differently. I have my own ways of coping to make sure that I’m in the best possible shape and form. It’s not easy, but I think that acknowledging whatever it is that you need to make sure that you feel good about yourself or feel good about what you’re doing is really important, with whatever method you use to determine that.

You’ve been on the WTA Player Council since 2019. Are you having more conversations about mental health now with the group?

I think it’s always been something that’s at the top of the list for everyone. We have a grueling schedule, it’s a long year, we’ve never been in a position where we’ve had to adjust to so many things and face so much adversity. The pandemic has put everything in perspective and it’s a different type of adjustment. So, being able to put this first and put the players first and put the group of players that really are struggling first, I think that’s been really important. We’ve discussed it a lot, we’ve kept it top of mind, and I think that’s the most important thing.

And speaking of lifting other people up, you’ve done a lot of work off the court with the Sloane Stephens Foundation and other charities in recent years. What have you been most proud of there and why is it so important to you?

When I started my foundation, it was more about giving the kids the opportunity through tennis and through education to see all of the possibilities and all of the goals and accomplishments you can reach. We’re based in the Compton Unified [School District], so a lot of our kids don’t have Internet, don’t have WiFi, don’t have computers, don’t have any access to keep up with their studies. They don’t have any tutors or they don’t have the necessary things that a lot of kids have access to. So for us over the pandemic, the most important part was making sure that our kids that were in our program not only had WiFi, but they had food to eat.

A lot of our families struggled with having meals. My mom was buying bulk food from Costco to take to our families. We don’t have that many kids, we don’t have 7,000 kids, but we have enough that we can make progress. And our girls that graduated high school this year that are going to four-year colleges, first-generation college students, that for us is a win. What we’ve done over the pandemic, it’s just been really great to see that through my tennis and the things that I’ve been able to do in my life and the things that I’ve been given in my life, I can give that back and be of help and assistance to another family who may need it. I think that’s what giving back is all about.

You were also a part of a WTA panel for young girls exploring future careers. Based on your own experiences, what was your message to those girls?

Put yourself first. There are always going to be ups and downs, but I think it’s important to be able to manage day-to-day. Like, have fun, enjoy your life, enjoy playing tennis, enjoy learning, enjoy whatever it is that you’re doing, because life is too short to not be happy. I think at a young age, when you have that mindset of enjoying yourself, being productive and setting a goal and going out and getting it, that determines how you live and how you choose to execute whatever it is on a daily basis. That’s what I try to tell them.

It’s been four years since you won the US Open. What have you learned about yourself as a player and a person since then?

I think a lot has happened. As a person, I’ve developed, I’ve learned, I’ve grown. As a player, there’s been adversity and ups and downs, but I try to navigate it as best I can and have a good attitude about it. That’s really all you can do.

You said at the beginning you’re feeling pretty good about your game right now. What are your goals going into the US Open?

Just winning matches, being competitive, trying to do my best. It’s been a long season and it’s been very hectic and chaotic. So I think going into every tournament ready to play and looking for wins is what the goal is. That’s pretty much all I can ask of myself, just to give my best effort and see how it goes.

For Ajee’ Wilson, the past year during the pandemic was somewhat of a blessing. The American record-holder in the 800 meter used the time away from competition to rest, reset and refocus on the mission, four years after a disappointing finish at the Rio Olympics.

Wilson’s preparation paid off at the United States Olympic trials in Eugene, Ore., where temperatures reached 108 degrees and events were delayed as a result. The 27-year-old fought through the heat to place third in the 800-meter final with a time of 1:58.39, just behind Athing Mu and Raevyn Rogers.

The finish qualified Wilson for her second Olympic Games. In Tokyo, she’ll be part of an American group looking to win its first gold medal in the event since 1968 and first medal of any kind since 1988.

“It was a super intense weekend, that being our third race of the series, having the delay with the heat,” Wilson said. “But coming out of that final, I was super relieved. I was excited and happy that I was able to round off an amazing team that we’ll be sending to Tokyo.”

Wilson spoke with Just Women’s Sports about what she’s learned since Rio, the biggest sacrifices she has to make for the Olympics and what she’s most looking forward to in Tokyo.

Had you ever run in heat that intense? How challenging was that?

I didn’t actually get that much time out there in the heat. Probably the hottest I’ve ever run in was 107 a few years before at the U.S. Championships in Sacramento. But right before we started warming up (at the trials), one of the heptathletes passed out, so they had to make the decision that they felt like was going to protect and be safest for most of the athletes.

I’m sure your preparation, recovery and training come into play in a situation like that. Which tactics and supplements have you found to be helpful through your partnership with Thorne?

I use their iron, their basic, two-a-day nutrient, their D3 and, recently since the partnership, their amino complex, which is a recovery drink. The first three that I take are pretty much just to meet deficiencies that I know that I have through routine bloodwork. But the big picture and the big goal is just better health — that’s their campaign. Whether it’s for an elite athlete or the everyday person, avid health lover, their products and their mission are geared towards just being healthier people.

Did you have to make any training accommodations over the past year because of the pandemic?

Yeah, so from March until June last year, we pretty much shut down as a team. So during that time phase, I was just on my own, mainly doing long runs, a workout every now and again. But because the season was pretty much canceled and the games were canceled, we backed off training a little bit, just to not beat yourself up if you don’t have to be ready that soon. And so coming into this season, in the fall, it was about gearing up again and getting back into the swing of preparing for a competitive schedule.

Did that break from your usual training regimen change your perspective of the sport in any way?

It did. I think the one thing I immediately realized was I reconnected with how much I love what I do and how much I love some of the smaller aspects of training and racing that I took a little bit for granted. Things as simple as seeing other friends that I’ve grown to know over the years at competitions, training with my teammates and being competitive are things that I feel like I was able to tap back into and appreciate more during that time.

This will be your second Olympics. Is there anything you took away from Rio that you will apply this time around in Tokyo?

From my specific experience in Rio, and not doing as well as I wanted that whole season, it was coming back home and saying, I need to see what’s going on. I’m not feeling how I should. That was the start of focusing on my health and on the deficiencies that I’m now addressing with Thorne products. It started from the Games, realizing like, hey, I need to take a step back and make sure that my body’s prepared to do what I’m asking it to do.

What changed about your training from before Rio to before Tokyo?

The simplest difference is that stuff that I wasn’t able to do then, I’m able to do now. I think over the years, my workload has gotten higher, and the more trained you get, the better you are at doing what you’re doing. So our workouts are a lot more intense. I have a routine lifting program now. We sprinkled things in here and there before Rio, but I feel like we’ve become more deliberate about that in the year since.

What do you find are the biggest sacrifices you have to make in preparation for an event like the Olympics?

I feel like I always go back and forth with that word because I think since I’ve been doing it for so long, how I live is just what it is. I have my habits, I have my routine. So things that I may have looked at as sacrifices when I first started fresh out of high school, now I don’t view them the same way and I appreciate them for being necessary to be successful. I would say, once upon a time, limiting my social butterfly experiences was something that was difficult to navigate at first. But I think as I’ve gotten older, knowing how to manage my time and having family and friends that are super supportive have made that feel like less of a sacrifice and more as something that I’ve adapted to.

Do you have any pre-race rituals?

As I’m getting ready to go to the track to race, I have “I Was Here” by Beyoncé on repeat. That’s my go-to song. I don’t listen to music when I train or warm up, so that’s the last soundbite that I get before I go. And then usually before warming up for my race, I’ll take a quick power nap, get up and start my warm-up.

Between now and leaving for Tokyo, what will you be doing?

I’ll just be home training. I train out of Philadelphia. I may be racing sometime in between, like in mid-July, but that’s still up in the air. So I’ll just be at home putting in work and preparing as best as I can to get ready to go to Tokyo.

What are you most looking forward to about the Olympics?

I’m really looking forward to just being at the start line of the first round, just taking in the magnitude of the moment. I’m not really sure how everything’s going to play out organization-wise in the village and with the travel and the games. So that’s been what my heart’s been set on, just that moment and having that opportunity.

Pride Month carries special meaning for the WNBA. In a league where the majority of the athletes are Black and many identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community, a month dedicated to celebrating diversity and inclusion is an opportunity for them to share their values with the rest of the world.

It’s also a celebration that extends far beyond June. For the WNBA Players Association, LGBTQ+ advocacy, with a special focus on combating anti-transgender legislation, is a top priority for the 2021 season.

To get a feel for the conversations being had within WNBA circles, Just Women’s Sports talked with both Seattle’s Candice Dupree and Los Angeles’ Amanda Zahui B. The players discussed being open about their sexuality, the influence their advocacy has on others, what good allyship looks like, and their feelings about the bills targeting transgender youth in sports.

(Editor’s note: This conversation has been lightly edited for length and clarity.)

JWS: We’re nearing the end of Pride Month, when the WNBA is always at the forefront of pushing initiatives and championing differences. What does Pride Month mean to you both personally?

Amanda Zahui B: I think it’s just a month where everyone who doesn’t celebrate our community is celebrating us. Because we don’t do anything different. It’s a month of celebration, but it’s also a weird month because, for these days, it’s so accepting. And then when the month is over, it’s like, all right, we go back to normal and the love and the support and the hype around our community is no longer there. It’s an important month, and I think that a lot of people gain the confidence to open up and really show who they are without the fear of being judged. So that’s beautiful. I just wish that it was like that all the time.

Dupree: I totally get what you’re saying. I mean, I’ve never been one to really give a s*** about what people think about how I live my life. So, I agree. People use June to celebrate instead of celebrating all year round. I guess it’s no different how February is Black History Month. It’s like importance is placed on that, but only for the month of February. So I think as a society, we have to find a way to be accepting all the time and not just in the month of June.

JWS: In this month, too, you see companies put out statements or put rainbow colors on their Twitter logos, and you get the feeling some of it is performative.

Dupree: Yeah, it should be like that all year round. We should know that these companies are inclusive. Like, here in Seattle, you see the flags hanging everywhere. That should be the norm.

JWS: And the WNBA is a leader in keeping this going throughout the year, just based on what you represent and all the work that you do off the court. How do you set that standard as a league?

Dupree: I look at it as, it’s about the next generation and what we’re teaching the people, the kids that are up and coming. I have my two little girls, and I don’t make a big deal about it, but I make sure that they’re aware of it. We took them to Target — their little notepads are actually behind me. The Pride flag, transgender flag is on the notebooks and they open them up, they draw and that kind of stuff. And they get that society is so caught up in, like, pink is for girls, blue is for boys. This is for girls, this is for boys.

So I’m just trying to teach them to be you, be your own individual. It doesn’t matter what people think. They’re only 3 and they’ve gone to school, and one little boy told one of my girls, “Ooh, girls don’t wear that.” Well, why not? Why do they have to dress or look a certain way? And why does that only have to be for boys? And so I just teach them to be open-minded, be accepting, but at the same time, be yourself.

Zahui B: I think it’s also because you lived through it.

Dupree: Yeah, and being a gay person, I have actually never faced any type of discrimination. I’ve never had to deal with any personal issues. I mean, my biggest thing was probably how I came out to my mom. And even for me, it wasn’t that big of a deal compared to other people’s situation.

JWS: It’s so cool that you’re passing that message onto your kids. Because of the platform you have and the way you carry yourselves as players and as a league, have you seen examples of your message and influence being passed onto others?

Dupree: The girls were born early and had to spend a few days in the NICU. So, (DeWanna Bonner) and I were there spending time with them and a doctor walked into their room. … She knew who we were because she knew that we played professional basketball, and she walked in and she thanked us for living our truth, being who we are. Obviously, being a pro athlete, we have influenced people in ways that we don’t even realize, but for her to come in and just thank us for not caring what other people think and being happy, having these girls, that was a huge moment for me. And she was a grown adult woman. So I can only imagine some of the younger generation looking up to us, how much them seeing us impacts their lives in a positive way.

It was definitely very impressionable. It’s a moment that I’ll obviously never forget.

JWS: Amanda, what were the reactions to the Pride story you wrote for the WNBA website earlier in the month?

Zahui B: I got a lot of positive feedback. One of my former coaches came to a game and she just walked up to me when we were shooting and she goes, “Thank you for being so open, for being you.” And she’s a gay, Black woman. And I was like, “Yeah, duh, this is what we do.” And she was like, “No, you being vulnerable and opening up to the whole world about something that some people see as taboo, it weighs heavy.”

JWS: When it comes to marketing women in sports, there’s often this expectation for women to fit into a certain box to be considered “marketable.” Candice, this is your 16th year in the WNBA, Amanda your seventh. How have each of you seen that evolve over time?

Dupree: When I first got to the league, there was no celebrating Pride Month. Like, you didn’t hear anything about it. But looking in the stands, you’re like, man, there’s a good majority of our fan base that can relate to that community. So for me, it was always interesting. I’m a very private person, I don’t put too much of my life on social media. For the most part, I keep to myself. And so in my mind, it was interesting that they didn’t cater to that market more. So I think it’s great that now we have Pride Month and all these different things that they celebrate throughout the course of the season. And I love that they’re all about inclusion and diversity. So to see all of that evolve over the last 15 years, it’s been pretty cool.

Zahui B: And to me, it’s kind of wild that the first Pride game was, I think, in 2014. Because you look up to the stands and, not judging people, but you kind of know who’s in the same community. So we celebrate all of these other things and I can’t imagine the W not celebrating the LGBTQ+ community. Like, it’s so second nature for us. We stand for so much more than just basketball, and that’s something that we constantly keep on saying and preaching. Like, we are actually about it. You just look across our league and we have so many different kinds of people.

Dupree: At a time when you saw, like, no other sports leagues doing that kind of stuff. I don’t think that the WNBA gets enough credit for how forward-thinking they are, and then before you know it, all these other pro sports organizations are trying to piggyback off of it. I saw for the first time the San Francisco Giants had Pride uniforms. I don’t even know how I came across it, and I’m like, wow, now professional baseball has uniforms for Pride Month.

Zahui B: I’m curious to see the men’s side of things, how comfortable everyone in the league is with the topic of sexuality. At one point it was like, we don’t talk about that at all. I would like to hear what they have to say, because us in the locker room, we know that just because I love women doesn’t mean that I’m checking out my teammates. But it’s a different conversation with men. I’m not saying all men, but I’ve had that conversation with men.

I don’t see a lot of them posting that trans lives matter. Yeah, Black lives matter, but all of us matter. Like, it’s not just about our Black men and our heterosexual women. It’s about all of us. And that’s something that the W, like you said, we’re leading the way in that, and everyone else is piggybacking off of and taking baby steps behind us.

JWS: Was there a time when that wasn’t the case in the WNBA, when people weren’t as accepting as they are now?

Dupree: I don’t think I’ve had any issues with that kind of stuff since I’ve been in the league. I guess if somebody does have an issue, they’re probably more apt to not say anything, so you would never know.

Zahui B: I had a conversation with a former teammate where she was telling me her side, and she was like, “I used to be really homophobic.” And I was like, “So, you were really in the locker room, hearing people talk about things that make you uncomfortable?” It was such an interesting conversation because I don’t see how you can hate someone that you don’t know. Like, you don’t know what they’re going through. But then for her to just 180 and be like, “I’m supporting you guys,” I think that’s beautiful.

Dupree: Like two or three years ago, our team sponsor was a major sponsor of the Pride parade in Indiana and so they wanted a few people from the team to partake in it. And nobody responded and said that they were going, and so finally it was like, all right, we’re just going to do it as a team. Then I had two teammates that didn’t show up, like they refused to go. And so that’s why I said you never know how people feel about it until they have to or they’re asked to partake in stuff like that.

So I just had a conversation with them. One was concerned that if she went, everybody was going to think that she was gay. And I’m like, first of all, you play in the WNBA, so everybody already thinks you’re gay. Like, that’s just the stigma behind the WNBA. And then the other one I found out was homophobic for years, but yet she has all these friends that are gay. And she had a bit of a loud mouth in the locker room. I think she had asked us to go somewhere or do something, and I was like, “So, you want us to come and support you, but when it comes time to support us and our community, you don’t want to show up?” I made her really uncomfortable, but it was the truth.

Zahui B: How was the team dynamic after that?

Dupree: I gave her a hard time in the locker room and people were like, “Yeah, Can, tell her!” And then I just left her alone. But it’s crazy because I never would have known. Like yeah, they’ve had boyfriends, but I never would have known that that’s how they really felt had we not encountered that situation. That’s what I mean that people don’t ever say anything, they just kind of go with the flow, and then you really find out how people are when they’re put in certain situations.

Zahui B: Like, if you are somebody that I consider one of my close friends, you better be very comfortable with me talking about my sexual life. You already know this, Candice. I’m very open. You have to be comfortable with me bringing my girlfriend, whoever I’m dating around, just like I’m comfortable listening to you and being around your boyfriends.

JWS: That actually brings me to another question. Candice, you gave an example of calling someone out for not being supportive. But what does good allyship look like?

Zahui B: I think great allyship — it must’ve been Brittany Boyd. It was 2017 on the float in the New York City Pride parade and Boyd was just standing up and saying, “Love who you want to love! I love love!” I think that’s a great example of like, “I don’t want to be with another female, but if that’s what makes my best friends happy, then I’m going to scream at the top of my lungs to the rest of the world to let them know that it’s OK.” And there’s different ways of doing that. But I just think that it’s speaking up, because at the end of the day we are all human beings.

Dupree: Both of us have white moms who had kids with Black guys, but my mom has never been one to shy away from being different. Even within her own family, regardless of how they felt, she did her own thing, she did what she thought was right. And I think that’s something that she’s instilled in her kids. Like, I don’t care who you are, what you do, you don’t get treated any differently.

Zahui B: My mom’s the same way. Any time she sees something that is the Pride flag, she sends it to me. Like, now I have the keychain with the Pride flag.

Dupree: My mom is actually the one that got (my kids) these Pride notebooks when they came here to visit us. She bought them from Target. I’m like, this is hilarious.

Zahui B: My mom goes around and is like, “My daughter’s gay.” And I’m like, “I’m good, mom.”

JWS: We’ve touched on how the WNBA has historically been really supportive of differences. When it comes to outside sponsors — I think of your partnerships with Glossier and Adidas, Amanda, as examples — have they become more tolerating and accepting over the years?

Zahui B: I think that companies and sponsors are getting more comfortable because they gain more numbers. I feel like the companies that I work with, like Adidas, we can sit down and have an open conversation about life and we learn from each other. That way, we can gain more confidence to go out in public and talk about it. … I know Nike does the same thing. It’s not just doing it to do it, but they are gaining the knowledge from us and now they can put it out there in the world because they have a bigger and larger platform. I just appreciate when sponsors or whoever are willing to have the tough conversation. And it’s extra for me and Candice because we are Black, too, so It’s not just being a lesbian. Like, we are Black and Candice is a Black mother who had babies with another Black woman.

Dupree: I’m a Nike athlete and a lot of the Nike athletes are a part of the LGBTQ+ community. So usually, we have Pride shoes that we get to play in, but things have been a little crazy because of COVID. But I think it’s cool. I even get on Nordstrom’s website and you just see all the different product lines that are out now that cater to Pride and the people in our community. So there’s progress, for sure.

JWS: Another priority of the WNBPA’s this year is the anti-transgender legislation we’ve seen sweeping across states. Advocates of those bills are trying to justify them by saying they will help protect women’s sports. What do you think when you hear that? What do you make of those arguments?

Dupree: I’m actually still trying to educate myself more on that topic. People have asked me questions and I’m like, I don’t know. I don’t know enough about it. I actually started a master’s degree program and one of the classes that I took was a psychology class, and part of it was discrimination in sports and gender discrimination. I wanted my case study to be on youth transgender athletes, and I couldn’t even do it because there’s not enough research out there yet regarding the stigma behind all of it.

I watched “Changing the Game” — it was a documentary that came out not too long ago. Even watching that, all my questions are geared toward the scientific part of it. You had one athlete that was a wrestler and he wanted to compete with the boys in high school. And they told him because he was born a female, he wasn’t allowed to. But at the same time, he’s taking hormones and testosterone and they’re making him compete with females. So I’m like, how is that not an unfair advantage on his behalf? Because you’re making him compete with females, but yet he’s taking hormones. It almost doesn’t make sense what they’re forcing him to do. Because now, he’s never going to lose. He’s already taking hormones. And then you have the opposite of that where they think, well, they were born a man, so that’s an unfair advantage. There’s so much that I still want to learn regarding that.

Zahui B: I feel the exact same way. Like you said, I’m not educated well enough on the science part of it. So it’s all just a million thoughts.

Dupree: I think the easiest way to break it down is parents are concerned. Like, you have to think about how big the transgender population is in sports. It’s probably extremely small. And I had a parent ask me, “What are your thoughts on transgender athletes?” She had two daughters that played on a high school basketball team, and she was like, “I don’t think it’s fair that they’re going to get a roster spot over my two girls.” And I’m like, “What are the chances of your daughters having to compete against another transgender athlete?” Like, the population is so small.

Zahui B: In Sweden, we had the first transgender boy or young adult — he was born a female — play basketball. Noel — that’s his name now — played with the guys, and I just thought that was so cool. For him, it wasn’t like, “I need to beat everyone.” It was more so, “We’re taking a step in the right direction, and I played comfortably in the gender and around the other guys that I always felt like I was.” And I was thinking, just imagine that feeling of like, I’m finally home. I get to play basketball as me.

Dupree: Yeah, parents make a big deal out of it, and they’re talking about the safety of girls in the locker room and all of that.

Zahui B: But there are so many arguments I can find against safety in the locker room. Like, it’s so understandable, the stress and the safety of your own child. I don’t have kids yet, and I know I’m going to be over-protective. But at the same time, not everyone is evil because they are different.

JWS: So, education and conversations — is that where the WNBA is on this particular issue at this point?

Dupree: I know that’s where I am personally. As far as the league as a whole, I think right now they’re just trying to stay engaged and understand what these bills are for. But at the end of the day, between the WNBA and the WNBPA, it’s all about diversity and inclusion.

JWS: Yeah, and the WNBA has been involved in this type of activism for so long. Last year, in particular, you showed how influential your voices and efforts can be in society and politics. On a personal level, do you feel even more of a responsibility to use your platform to push for change where it matters most to you?

Zahui B: No, I’m just being me.

Dupree: I don’t know that I look at it as a responsibility. I post what I want to post, whether it’s informative or not, and if people are able to educate themselves by reading stuff that I post, I think that’s great. But yeah, I don’t know that I take it as a responsibility, like I have to do this. Like Amanda said, it’s just being me.

Zahui B: I think we both literally say whatever we mean and whatever we feel like without trying to hurt anyone. And that’s how it is with social media. I think that we both are for love and respect and for world peace, so that’s what we try to post. And it’s not like we think, I have to post this so other people see it. It’s more so, this feels right for me.

JWS: Do you think last year then was an example of more people starting to realize what the WNBA has always been about?

Dupree: Yeah, for sure. Because at the time, it was just us and the NBA. We were the only sports being played. So it was a great opportunity for the league and for the players to get out there and let people know what we’re all about. And I thought everybody did a great job of that.

Zahui B: And we did it as a unit. I think that’s why it was so powerful. Like, we all were on the same page. We all were fighting the same fight together. We’ve never all been in the same space at the same time. And with doing and being the way that we are, there comes a certain kind of responsibility. We can’t neglect that. But I think that we have been just us this whole time, that it was easy. Even when it was hard, it was easy in a sense.

Dupree: I get what you’re saying. Like, just by being ourselves, we were able to show the entire world this is who we are and this is what we stand for. We felt like we were taking on this responsibility to get certain things out there, but it just came naturally.

When the WNBA reached a new collective bargaining agreement last January, the measures that would pay the players higher salaries and offer more benefits stemmed in large part from an innovative Changemakers program. AT&T, Deloitte and Nike signed on to be the leading investors and drivers of marketing and branding strategy for the WNBA.

As the league prepared to tip off its 25th season last month, it announced a fourth Changemaker with even greater ambitions.

Google, as part of a multi-year agreement with the WNBA, was committing not only to provide business support but also to elevate the visibility of the league and its players. The company partnered with ESPN to broadcast 25 regular season games on the network and became an associate sponsor of its 30 for 30 and ESPN Films Series. It also agreed to drive more awareness for the WNBA through its search engines and platforms.

Kate Johnson, Google’s director of partnerships for content and sports media, was at the center of the negotiations. A decorated rower at Michigan from 1997-2001 and a 2004 Olympic medalist, Johnson was uniquely driven to support a women’s sports league that’s a leader in both on-court performance and off-court activism.

Just Women’s Sports spoke with Johnson about the origins of the partnership, the importance of collaborating with a media company and the decision to get involved in women’s sports now.

You joined Google in late 2019. What can you tell me about the initial conversations with the WNBA and how the partnership came to fruition?

I would back up and say that we’re not new to sports partnerships. When I think across all of our different product areas, we do have long-standing partnerships. But search and consumer apps, this is really our first foray into this, and a lot of that stems from our desire to be helpful in the world. That’s been a real focus of Google’s over the last couple of years.

Through that lens, women’s sports makes a ton of sense for us because it fits and aligns completely with our brand values, and specifically with the WNBA. We’ve partnered in kind of shorter-term moments with various women’s sports entities, but when we were looking at where we could have a longer-term impact, the WNBA really is at the forefront of progress for gender equity, which has been an important focus of ours. And the same thing with racial justice. So there’s a real synergy with our values.

You were an athlete yourself who went to the Olympics. On a personal level, was it important for you to get involved in women’s sports in this way?

I didn’t always get to choose what I got to work on, but when it comes to getting to choose, yes. I definitely positioned myself as a women’s sports advocate, and I think sometimes you’re waiting for the world to catch up a little bit. And the time is so obviously right. I mean, it’s always been the right time to invest in women’s sports, but I think the cultural zeitgeist right now is at a place where I don’t think we’re going to ever turn back after this moment. This year was a big tipping point for women’s sports, and I think the momentum will just continue.

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Kate Johnson (second from right) after winning the silver medal in the women's eight final at the 2004 Athens Games. (MLADEN ANTONOV / AFP / Getty Images)

I love that the deal is centered on reach, particularly getting the WNBA in front of more people with the 25 games on ESPN this year. Why was that a cornerstone of this deal in your eyes?

We do media investments really well. We have deep relationships with ESPN, with Disney, with Turner, meaning that we are advertisers. But I think if you’re not using those relationships to also do good in the world, you’re missing an opportunity.

The conversation with ESPN was really looking at the impact that we can make through those relationships that we have there, knocking heads with female leadership over there to say, “Where can we, our two brands together, uniquely make a difference?” And then those things certainly rolled into the WNBA being absolutely the right fit for us.

We have all of these examples of when more games are aired on national television, the ratings deliver. We saw it last year when TV viewership for the WNBA was up 68 percent. What are your goals on the TV side?

Our goals are definitely to drive more visibility of women’s sports and, with the launch of our partnership, to drive discoverability and distribution. We can do that just by being Google, in the sense of making sure we’re connecting more fans to getting the highlights on the WNBA, the scores, where the game is playing, what time it’s on — all in just a one-stop-shop when they Google “WNBA.”

And then that translates to the work that we’ve done with ESPN, which was making sure that it wasn’t just doing a media buy with ESPN, which so often these partnerships require. It was actually looking at that media investment and saying, “Can we do more?”

Another part of the deal was Google becoming a sponsor of ESPN’s 30 for 30 and ESPN Films Series. We just had a chance to see ESPN’s “144” doc on the WNBA bubble season. Would you like to see more WNBA and women’s sports docs through this activation?

Getting into the longform content, telling female athletes’ stories — that’s a really big part of the equation, which is why I’m really proud of that part of this partnership. My whole career has been about traditional sponsorship. This is not a traditional sponsorship approach. It’s not about just checking boxes, like doing the obligatory media by doing the obligatory activation. It’s, “OK, what uniquely can Google help the WNBA solve for? Where can we help in women’s sports?” And if we can help create more production of games on ESPN to drive more visibility, fantastic. If we can connect more fans through search to the games they want to watch, when they want to watch them, then we’re doing our job.

With the groundswell we’re seeing behind women’s sports and the WNBA, why was it important to invest in the league now?

I think there just comes a point where it’s like, what are we waiting for? I feel really good about the WNBA for so many reasons. But I think it’s really powerful that these women just played at the NCAA tournament and were kind of showing the inequalities in the game and in the tournaments, and then we get to roll it into taking a stand as an important brand for women’s sports with the W, and especially having watched the women last year use their platform for change. I think it’s giving them credit where it’s due.

Yeah, that’s important to note. You had all these outlets covering the inequities between the men’s and women’s tournaments, but then not covering the women’s games.

Yeah, I don’t think it’s enough for brands, especially in women’s sports, to just do the status quo. We have to look at the problem differently and solve for those problems differently.

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How integral was Cathy Engelbert to this? She’s only in Year 2 of her role as WNBA commissioner, and now you are the fourth Changemaker she’s helped bring on as a partner of the league.

She’s incredible, what she’s doing in terms of fundraising. It’s always a smart time to invest in women’s sports, but it also depends on the medium that you’re talking about and she’s looking for real-time investors to actually invest in a franchise model. I saw the quote where six of the 12 teams have actually been profitable over the last two years. Like, that doesn’t happen in men’s sports very often either. So what she’s doing is transformative.

For us, having an innovative thought leader over there, driving the W forward into this next chapter is another reason why it makes so much sense for us to join.

What else can you say about this partnership?

Somebody asked me about this other day: One of the greatest forms of flattery is actually copying. I’m not saying that we’re going to see anybody copying us yet in this space, but if that were a byproduct of this, I would be so proud because I think this is a territory where it’s not elbows out, like defend to protect your turf. It’s going to take a full-court press, everybody playing their role to elevate the game. We’re doing our job and we invite more brands to come to the table.

Esmeralda Negron is the Co-Founder and General Manager of Ata Football, an over-the-top sports streaming service carrying live broadcasts of women’s football. In partnership with JWS, Ata Football has helped create The Soccer Show, a highlights-driven YouTube program dedicated to the FAWSL.  

For those who don’t know, can you give a quick overview of Ata’s business model? 

We’ve invested in these women’s football rights and created distribution partnerships with premium broadcasters in territories where we have live rights. We share these rights, because we think it’s the best thing for the sport, but we retain the ability to integrate sponsors into the live match: in opening and closing sequences, halftime shows, whatever it might be. 

We are in the process of talking to some really premier brands to, hopefully, get sponsors on for next season and beyond. A big part of our business model is driving revenue and marketing support via our broadcast sponsorship integration, but we’ll be launching our subscription platform in August of 2021 and that will also be a big part of our business model.

The company is a little over six months old. How are things going? 

People have asked that a bunch of times and I think we’re lucky in that… I don’t know how to explain it, but it feels like the market was excited about it. We launched this in a pandemic when fans were excited about live sport and seeing more and more come back on. We ultimately succeeded, in a way, because I think people were paying attention to anything that came back on. Fans were excited to have live sports. Any league that was confirming they were back on, that they would be visible and accessible to fans, was a positive.

What’s been the biggest challenge so far?

I think with any startup, you’re going to be struggling for resources and bandwidth. We have a phenomenal group of partners, consultants and interns who have all stepped up to bring the vision of Ata Football to life. We have incredible support from our investment group, 777 Partners through their shared services. Additionally, our broadcast production team, Gravity Media, based in London, are just top-class. Without all of these people, we wouldn’t be doing what we’re doing at this time. 

As with any startup, there are so many challenges. Especially in this space, in women’s sport and women’s soccer, there’s incredible growth and opportunities and partnerships and different things that you can do. It’s just finding the time and being smart with your time and navigating that piece of things, understanding that you’re in this startup phase where you want to do everything, but you don’t necessarily always have the resources or the bandwidth or the staff to be able to move on everything that you want. It’s a lot, but it’s also something I love and I’m so passionate about. I feel so excited about what we’re building and what we’re doing.

Where do you think the biggest future opportunities are? 

For us, providing this visibility and accessibility, both on atafootball.com and with our premium broadcast partners, has been phenomenal. In the long term, we hope our digital platform will be  where we deliver the most value to fans and players of the game. We want to unite a community around women’s soccer and really deliver valuable experiences, resources, and tools to fans and the grassroots market. 

You yourself were an extremely accomplished college soccer player at Princeton. From then to now, can you describe the growth you’ve seen as a player and a businesswoman around the global women’s game? 

The leagues and the clubs now feel like they have partners and a support system that’s really going to help them build legitimate fandom and grow the game. That was the inspiration behind launching Ata Football. And when I think back to my experience as a pro in 2006, 2007, and what the landscape looks like now, it’s night and day. 

Some people still say, “Oh, women’s sports are still super behind.” And it is when you compare them to men’s. But when you think about the growth in the 10-15 years from when I played, it’s incredible. It’s exciting to see, and it’s really promising. 

At Ata Football, we’re really just excited to be involved and to support the growth, to support the visibility, just as I know JWS is. Companies like Just Women Sports and Ata Football can hopefully drive this virtuous cycle of reinvestment in the game and really deliver value to everybody associated with the game so that sponsors can now reach an engaged audience around women’s sports. 

Not to get lost in our own hype here, but what made you excited about working with JWS on the Soccer Show?

At Ata Football, we partner with other platforms and organizations that are invested in women’s sport and in bringing more promotion, marketing and coverage to the space. We realized that you guys were dedicated to covering the FAWSL and were excited to produce and launch this show. So for us, it was a no brainer. It’s an exciting partnership. We really respect everything that you guys are doing over there and we love it. To partner with another organization allows us to offer more to our audience and to your audience is a win-win for everybody.

There was big news out of the FAWSL recently with a new television deal with BBC and Sky Sports. What was your reaction, and what does that mean for Ata Football?

I think it’s phenomenal for the league. I think Sky’s investment in producing more matches at a higher level will only give us more opportunity to broadcast more matches here in the US that are produced at a really great standard. So we’re really excited. We have some friends at Sky Sports, so we’re excited for them and excited that there are now more and more investments and bigger investments in the media rights space. Without this type of investment and people recognizing the value and taking this leap, you can’t pump that money back into the leagues and the players and the clubs. I think seeing women’s sports finally getting that value, the attention around that, and people recognizing the value in it from a media rights perspective, I think is tremendous.

 

Kaillie Humphries and Lolo Jones paired to win a historic two-woman bobsled world championship on February 6th. For Humphries, a two-time Olympic gold medalist, it was her fourth world championship. For Jones, it was the biggest win in her second-career after she picked up the sport a decade ago. They spoke with Just Women’s Sports about their historic win and what comes next as they prepare for the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing. 

First off, congratulations to you both. I read somewhere that Kaillie, you messaged Lolo on Instagram to get her to come back to bobsledding a few years back. Can you both give your side of that story? 

Kaillie: I met Lolo through bobsled years ago going into the Olympic year. I was with Canada, she was with the USA going into 2014. So we had known of each other, had conversations, had chatted, just being in the sports world. And then fast forward to me joining team USA last season. Going into this summer, I had messaged Lolo just to see where she was at. I knew she was training for Tokyo, but with Tokyo being postponed a year, I just wanted to see if she was coming back to bobsleigh. And if that was at all an interest for her.

I had raced with one of her former teammates in Canada. So I’ve had a feeling that pairing my steering with her speed could be a really good combination. I always admired Lolo for her athleticism and just being a really strong, motivational, powerful athlete. And so I messaged her and we started talking about her coming back, what that would look like. And so I’m very grateful that she trusted me and the coaching staff and the team and took that risk and felt safe to come back.

 

Lolo, what was that like from your perspective, getting that message and having those early conversations?

Lolo: It was basically what Kaillie said. We met as competitors. Actually, my job was to make sure that we put the biggest gap on her when she competed for Team Canada, that’s just how good of a driver she is. We were always like, “You have to put the gap on her because she’s such a good driver. Just put as much as you can on her.” My job was to make her have really bad days.

So when she messaged me after crossing over to the USA, honestly, I can only describe it as like Usain Bolt sliding into your DMs and asking you to be on a 4×100 relay race. And that’s essentially what it was like, I almost dropped my phone. I was like, “Is this really happening?” She’s one of the best drivers, not only for Team USA, but in the history of bobsled. So any brakeman would be honored to get in her sled.

But it was by no means easy, we’re making it sound like it was easy, but she recruited me. But that doesn’t mean I was guaranteed to be in a sled. There were levels to this where I had to either prove myself or beat someone or have a good result to actually end up in her sled. But that’s the long short story.

 

And what do you think allowed you to find such quick chemistry?

Kaillie: Personality wise, how we approach our sport is very similar. I think just mentally, the fierceness, the intensity that we bring, the determination — we are very detailed personalities and are always pushing for perfection. And so I think right from the get go, there were certain aspects of Lolo I could see and understand, and it just felt comfortable being around her.

Like she said, there were definitely some obstacles and some hurdles, and we both had to work individually at the beginning of the season. But then once we were able to come together and reach a certain point, I think a lot of it was a feeling of comfort and understanding for one another, a willingness to push for each other, and then just having trust and faith in the other person. You wanted to compete for them. I didn’t want to just win. I wanted to win alongside Lolo.

 

Kaillie — you’re now the only woman to win four world championships. Now that you’ve had some time to process that, what does it mean to you? 

Kaillie: A little bit of relief comes with that from the standpoint of, “I always believed in myself and that I could be one of the best in the sport.” I’ve worked extremely hard to put myself in this scenario. This is my life and everything that I do. So to be amongst some of the best is just a really cool feeling. And it does feel like there’s a payday at the end. It’s not monetary, it’s not something tangible, but just the feeling that it worked.

The plan was there for all those years, all those hard days, all those times away from family, from friends. It definitely is a big relief, but also it’s a super cool feeling. It does provide a lot of confidence to know I can jump in a sled and I am one of the best, I can trust my abilities a little bit more. I think I have more confidence in myself for sure after having won this. I have more confidence in my ability as a driver, as a female, in who I am and what I stand for and what I represent. I feel a lot stronger in my feelings and my faith with that.

 

And Lolo, I know you have a unique story as well. You’re now a world champion in two different sports, and have won those titles across three different decades. 

Lolo: I’m old, thank you. [Laughs]

 

You started competing in bobsledding almost a decade ago. What has kept you motivated throughout these years?

Lolo: I think as an athlete, we kind of get this stigma that we’re washed up, we’re not of value as we get older. So I embrace that. I mean, Kaillie is 35. So it’s kind of cool to achieve these goals at a later stage.

I’m thrilled that I was able to win this championship with Kaillie and over three decades, it just shows the longevity of my career. But what it probably doesn’t show is all the time in between the losses, the nights where I wondered if I should give up. One of my favorite quotes is, “Never tease an old dog because they might just have one bite left in them.”

That’s for anybody going for a dream who feels like they’re washed up or that they don’t have what it takes anymore. I just tell them to keep pushing. Cause that’s what me and Kaillie are doing. And we’re quite successful at it.

You were training for one last Summer Olympics bid, after which you were on an MTV reality show before jumping into Bobsled camp. How were you able to make that transition so quickly and successfully? 

Lolo: Was definitely not quickly. It definitely put Kaillie at a hindrance, for sure. Because of the quick turnover, I’m not at the weight I need to be for bob, so we actually had to put quite a bit of weight in the bob this year. So that means I had to have help pushing it. Now back in Boston, I’ll be able to put on the weight gain so that we don’t have to do that.

 

Kaillie, I understand that you’re still waiting for a citizenship decision which will determine whether you can compete for the US at the Olympics next year. Can you give us an update as to what that timeline looks like?

Kaillie: I cannot give you an update because there is none. My application is in, but unfortunately COVID shut down immigration and the government for a period of time this summer. So we’re still in the process of understanding where I’m at. That’s something that my lawyer is working on right now. So we don’t have an exact timeline. There is no exact date. There is nothing official as of now because there’s still a backlog of stuff. And they’re trying to sort through a whole mess of, like I said, immigration as a whole across the entire country. And so where I fall into that, it’s still pretty unknown at this time. At this point, we’re just waiting for a decision.

 

Assuming it all works out, this will be your first Olympics competing for the US. You’ve obviously competed in the Olympics before and won a fair share of medals. But what would it mean to compete for the US in China?

Kaillie: Well, I think, honestly, it will be a huge honor to represent such a strong nation, such a strong country. Those are huge shoes to step into, and it’s not lost on me. And I’m extremely proud to represent the USA right now, to represent it on the world stage, to know that I feel like I leveled up.

I’m proud to live and represent the United States. It is my home. It is where I live now. I married an American, so this is very much my life. I think just being proud is the biggest thing I can say overall. Now, it will be a first, for sure, but I’m not new to the Olympic world. This world is still the same. So I’m excited for the opportunities, for the chance to potentially bring home medals for the United States in this sport and to show as you know, we’re very strong, proud athletes and females within this sport. And we can do anything we set our mind to.

 

How are you both preparing for 2022 now? 

Lolo: For me, I need to focus on properly gaining weight. And then mentally, I just have to prepare myself, because I’m going to be returning to where my first Olympics was. I competed in the Summer Olympics in Beijing, which everybody kind of knows is where I hit a hurdle, and that cost me the Olympic gold medal.

So I’m going to fight like hell to earn my spot on the team, to go back there and just have redemption. I don’t want to just go and win a medal. I want to go and win a gold medal. Because of what happened, I am just going to work my tail off to make sure I’m in the position to do that.

Kaillie: And the cool part is, Lolo is not going to be alone this time. Not that she was last time, but it’s not going to be just her. We have a very, very strong women team heading to 2022. The team is one of the strongest women bob teams in the world. So we’ll be there to support Lolo. Everybody has their individual goals, myself included, but as a women’s group, as a women’s team, we are extremely strong. And so that’s very motivating for me specifically. I think I definitely want to go, win an Olympic gold medal in 2022. It’s not just showing up and making the team. I lost that in 2018. I was a champion before, but somebody else got it last time. So I want it back. That’s my goal.

 

Was there anything else that you wanted to bring up that I didn’t mention at all?

Lolo: I just hope there are women out there that are just inspired. If they can look at Kaillie and just see her dominance and see how she was able to break history and just be really spot on at the prime of her career — that’s incredible. And I hope it inspires women to just keep reaching for new levels. And then I hope that they see my story and know that through it all, through the ups and the downs, they just need to keep pressing. Because both of us have gone through a lot of hardships and I know it may seem easy, but it wasn’t. So just keep fighting.

The captain of the U.S. U20 Women’s National Team, Naomi Girma was recently voted the 2020 U.S. Soccer Young Female Player of the Year. Girma also plays for Stanford University, with whom she won the NCAA Championship in 2019 as the Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Year.  

Congrats on the big award. Can you talk about what it meant to you to be named the 2020 Young Player of the Year?

It was an honor, and I think it was just a really cool way to end this year and award all the hard work that has gone on behind the scenes. We talked before camp, and I feel like I’ve just been working and trying to find the time to compete. Sadly, we didn’t get to play in the fall, but hopefully the team gets a season in the spring. But I was just really thankful and humbled to get the award, especially with Trinity [Rodman] and Mia [Fishel] having great years as well.

Coming out of national team camp in October, what do you think were your biggest learnings from playing with the USWNT?

It was an amazing experience, and I think I learned a lot from watching the older players and watching the more experienced defenders. Just seeing the little movements, and the way they communicate, and how everything is done with intention—I learned a lot just from watching them, which was really cool.

And from the coaches, we went through a lot of defensive shapes and the things we focus on when we’re defending in the box, and I think it was cool to be exposed to the language that they use and the specifics behind everything. Because although it’s a similar style throughout these national teams, the details are really emphasized there. I think learning those was really, really beneficial for me.

What kind of feedback did the coaches give you coming out of camp?

I think just being a younger player, a lot of times the things that separate us are the details. We talked a lot about that and just obviously being comfortable in that environment and just feeling like you belong and using your voice there, which I think I did a decent job of, for my first camp, but obviously that’s something that improves with experience.

15 former Young Player of the Year Award winners have gone on to play in a World Cup for the US. Does that bring pressure or excitement?

Oh wow, I did not know that. I think it brings excitement. Obviously, they didn’t win it and then just make the World Cup team. A lot of work went in behind it. And I think this is a cool step to take along the way, but this isn’t ultimately the end of where I want to get. So I think it motivates me to keep working and especially after going to that camp. Keep seeing or focusing on the little details I can work on.

How’s everything going? Are you on break still from school?

We just reported to campus a few weeks ago. But I tore my ACL, so I’ve kept it pretty low key so far.

Oh man. So are you on the path of recovery now? Did you have surgery and everything?

Yeah. It happened after camp. Sometimes you have to wait a while for your ACL to get the surgery, but luckily I wasn’t super swollen, so I got it the next week after I found out.

What does the timeline look like for you now?

I’m definitely out for winter or spring, whatever happens, but I can play in the fall, which I’m happy about. We are supposed to have a spring season, but it is still unclear. We’re currently having to deal with Santa Clara County restrictions, so we’re very limited in what we can do. I’m not sure if you’ve seen, but women’s basketball and men’s basketball are just continually on the road, because they can’t come back to Santa Clara County. So for now, we’re waiting for the county to lift those mandates, and then we’ll see.

Obviously everything is up in the air, but individually, what are your goals for the next year? 

Going into 2021, I just want to attack everything. That’s something I’ve been thinking about throughout rehab. After such a high of getting invited to camp, it was such a disappointment, but I’ve just been focusing on how I approach PT and my treatment and rehab and things like that.

As I start progressing, I want to do every little thing at each step of the way to make sure I can come back fully fit. And then I’m really looking forward to my senior season in the fall. I just want to be fully ready to compete and play with my teammates and lead the team.

You’re a year out from graduating, but have you given any thoughts to what your plans are afterwards? You could easily be the frontrunner for the No. 1 pick in the NWSL draft in 2022. 

Yeah, I mean, I’ve definitely thought about it, but I think for now, I’ve just been focusing on my rehab instead of thinking too far ahead past my senior season. Especially being injured, I feel like it gets overwhelming to think about that too much.

Was there anything else that you wanted to mention about the award and the excitement around that? 

I would just like to say how thankful I am to the Ethiopian community in my area. I grew up playing with them, and I’m just happy they’ve been with me along the way. I know this was really exciting for them too, because it’s a product of everyone’s hard work. So I’m just really grateful. And being given the award was just a huge blessing amongst a lot of other things happening.